tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post5176388366984423582..comments2024-03-06T03:15:58.539-05:00Comments on <b>THE NEW REFORM CLUB</b>: Faith, Religion and AtheistsHunter Bakerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-68073118411953898662008-01-11T20:10:00.000-05:002008-01-11T20:10:00.000-05:00And we may add, Brother James, per this excellent ...And we may add, Brother James, <A HREF="http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/12/two-books-approach-to-christianity-2.html" REL="nofollow">per this excellent essay</A>, chockful of cool quotes, the question of why is there order instead of chaos?Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-75639668332572814562008-01-11T15:15:00.000-05:002008-01-11T15:15:00.000-05:00Oh, I think the something-from-nothing question is...Oh, I think the something-from-nothing question is key, and atheists simply decide to stop thinking about it.<BR/><BR/>But that is not an answer, nor would a proper philosopher stop musing on any question.<BR/><BR/>The second problem is that the New Atheists are also anti-theists, and seek to drive religion out of the public square by using the legal resources of government against it.<BR/><BR/>Me, I don't see how a manger poses any threat to philosophy. Let 1000flowers bloom, even if the atheist ones are gray, scentless and sterile.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-3680760195711965692008-01-10T13:28:00.000-05:002008-01-10T13:28:00.000-05:00Sure it can, since theism doesn't answer the somet...Sure it can, since theism doesn't answer the something-from-nothing question either; it merely stops it at an emotionally satisfactory answer to where <I>our</I> something comes from. But where, in this explanation, does god come from? Is god simply <I>ex nihilo</I>, and if so, how does that make theism any more explanatory? All the theist does is add one extra step to the path, and that's completely unsatisfactory in itself. Atheism does not necessarily entail either scientific materialism or nihilism, it simply rejects theism as an answer. And well it should; theism in the "something from nothing" sense, is only one step removed from atheism when it comes to this same problem.<BR/><BR/>Most atheists that I've read -- including the "new" atheists that seem to garner so much vitriol given their public indecency in having the temerity to be public about their belief -- readily concede that you can't know for certain that there is or isn't a god or gods; one can only be reasonably certain, but never sure. And that's true of everything. Is that unsatisfactory? Maybe. But it's a hell of a lot more defensible than adherence to claiming the truth value of a scriptural tradition.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-25213344281279084092008-01-09T21:03:00.000-05:002008-01-09T21:03:00.000-05:00I agree with James that a reasonable case can be m...I agree with James that a reasonable case can be made for atheism, especially when it comes to human suffering. If there's a God, etc.<BR/><BR/>Also, <A HREF="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/flew_falsification.html" REL="nofollow">this isn't bad.</A><BR/><BR/>However, James, Mr. Homnick's [and Paul Williams'] question about something-from-nothing is a worthy counter-question that cannot be ignored.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-53114867401787083512008-01-09T17:03:00.000-05:002008-01-09T17:03:00.000-05:00In fact the leap of faith it takes to be an atheis...<I>In fact the leap of faith it takes to be an atheist is incomprehensible, because they have to believe that everything came from nothing.</I><BR/><BR/>Of course this is baffling to you, because you get to create the straw man that confuses you. Have you ever bothered to <I>read</I> anything by an atheist, ever? S.T. Joshi, maybe, or Richard Rorty? Hell, surely you're of an age to have read some Hemingway. Try arguing against what some atheists actually say and write, and not what you think they say and write.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-67956391352789499342008-01-03T17:51:00.000-05:002008-01-03T17:51:00.000-05:00That's a very good place to start. In fact, Paul ...That's a very good place to start. In fact, Paul Williams, one of Britain's leading scholars on Buddhism, returned to Christianity because of one question that Buddhism found unanswerable---why is there something instead of nothing?Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-10351770419882092922008-01-03T01:50:00.000-05:002008-01-03T01:50:00.000-05:00I second the motion heartily. The atheists occupy...I second the motion heartily. The atheists occupy an absurd logical position, since they believe in something from nothing-that-you-cannot-understand. <BR/><BR/>Theists believe in something from something-that-you-cannot-understand, and that is something that you can understand.Jay D. Homnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14714671338316275833noreply@blogger.com