tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post115409810370263352..comments2024-03-06T03:15:58.539-05:00Comments on <b>THE NEW REFORM CLUB</b>: Bystanders? Only In a SenseHunter Bakerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1154180730859059862006-07-29T09:45:00.000-04:002006-07-29T09:45:00.000-04:00It's not about them; it's about us. We should acce...<I>It's not about them; it's about us. We should accept Hezbollah's paradigm? Because..?…It’s about not losing ourselves.</I><BR/><BR/>It’s not about accepting Hizbollah’s paradigm. It’s about coming to terms with who they really are, and realizing that they have a fundamental conflict with our notion of what is good. They have shown that there is no middle position to be found, and so we find that our <I>first</I> risk of losing ourselves (in one sense, literally) comes by not matching their level of conviction.<BR/><BR/>I would suggest that your very appropriate concern for losing our humanity, our compassion, is secondary to this. The tactics of Hizbollah are designed to exploit the confusion between these two concerns – and they are the lowest of the low for doing so. But we cannot excuse ourselves from our responsibilities (and neither can the Lebanese), and we should not be surprised at the price* to be paid by not dealing with Hizbollah sooner.<BR/><BR/>* <I>Israeli Cabinet Minister Avi Dichter said on Israel radio Saturday that it was unacceptable for Lebanon's government "to hide behind the claim that a terror organization is operating on their ground and they cannot stop it." He said Israel holds the government fully accountable for what Hezbollah is doing there and that "Lebanon is paying the full price these days."</I>Matt Huismanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09972662349345412127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1154180631328808402006-07-29T09:43:00.000-04:002006-07-29T09:43:00.000-04:00Thanks, HB and ST, it’s good to be here. I’m not ...Thanks, HB and ST, it’s good to be here. I’m not sure how it happened, but I consider it an honor to be included by such company – the two of you in particular.<BR/><BR/>Glad to see that your both still on the (TR) Club scene.Matt Huismanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09972662349345412127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1154111804689071292006-07-28T14:36:00.000-04:002006-07-28T14:36:00.000-04:00Mr. Huisman, I am thrilled to see you in the posti...Mr. Huisman, I am thrilled to see you in the posting chair. What a superb decision from the new boss!!!Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1154110781319516952006-07-28T14:19:00.000-04:002006-07-28T14:19:00.000-04:00The problem of the human shield is tractable moral...The problem of the human shield is tractable morally, but more difficult practically. The practical conundrum is this: how do you determine whether, once his death has been blamed on you, as it surely will be by those who side with your enemy, the aggregate result will be "worth it?"<BR/><BR/>We've seen quite a number of instances where peaceable Israeli civilians were slaughtered by Palestinian terrorists, by design. Now, those deaths were deliberate murders; the victims weren't being used as shields. But morally, the death of, say, a UN observer being used by Hezbollah to discourage Israeli counterfire would surely be the same -- yet the media, the Muslim Middle East, our domestic leftists, and many other voices would be raised in condemnation of Israel, and would disturb the equanimity of some number of otherwise sensible persons.<BR/><BR/>The practical problem, in other words, is a utilitarian calculation of the coldest sort: <B><I>Will the sacrifice of that "human shield," whose death cannot justly be blamed on me whether he's there willingly or not, yield a net gain for justice after all is said and done?</I></B><BR/><BR/>I am profoundly glad I've never been faced with that problem, and I pity the Israelis and others in similar positions who must.Francis W. Porrettohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05862584203772592282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1154105773203749722006-07-28T12:56:00.000-04:002006-07-28T12:56:00.000-04:00Matt, welcome to the blog. I'm delighted to have y...Matt, welcome to the blog. I'm delighted to have you on board.<BR/><BR/>As to the substance of your post, I agree that this is a basic principle that must be considered. If a society is actively and by choice acting to shield an army, the members of that society have no moral standing by which to claim innocence, collectively speaking. Individual members, however, could indeed by quite innocent, and therefore minimizing civilian casualties should always be the goal.<BR/><BR/>In the case of Lebanon, moreover, I do not see the population as willingly shielding Hizbollah. The country was entirely overrun by Syria and has yet to throw off the shackles fully. Certainly Lebanon cannot push Hizbollah out by itself. Hence, I cannot see the Lebanese population as at all responsible for their current situation, and I therefore believe the right choice is for Israel and her few allies to take the battle to its true source: Syria and Iran. It is there that the real war lies.S. T. Karnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05971214612730402709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1154100512853433862006-07-28T11:28:00.000-04:002006-07-28T11:28:00.000-04:00"I'm peeking in the door that Ward Churchill opene..."I'm peeking in the door that Ward Churchill opened, that in this day and age, the possibility exists that there are no civilians."<BR/><BR/>It's actually not surprising that you both repeatedly fail to grasp the fundamental nature of the critique you so backhandedly dismiss. It's not about them; it's about us. We should accept Hezbollah's paradigm? Because..?<BR/><BR/>It's not about them. It's about us. It's about not losing ourselves.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.com