tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post112363309398142009..comments2024-03-06T03:15:58.539-05:00Comments on <b>THE NEW REFORM CLUB</b>: Bono as EveryChristian . . .Hunter Bakerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123807496348003352005-08-11T20:44:00.000-04:002005-08-11T20:44:00.000-04:00Ah, why it is not wise to call another man a liar....Ah, why it is not wise to call another man a liar.<BR/><BR/>I confess I was tempted, James, and sorely. But I did not want to believe such a thing of you. That, and a little Christian forbearance stilled my cybertongue. ;-)<BR/><BR/>A link to the online <I>Mere Christianity</I> would be appreciated. I would not expect to convert everyone, but it has <A HREF="http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/bibliography/MereChrist_0" REL="nofollow"> occasionally worked a little magic.</A>Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123804235679788522005-08-11T19:50:00.000-04:002005-08-11T19:50:00.000-04:00I see what happened. I was mashing separate thread...I see what happened. I was mashing separate threads in my mind. Mere Christianity has been referenced so many times, I assumed it was the one you linked to (I found a copy of it online and read it after so many references to it).<BR/><BR/>Tell you what, I've bookmarked Abolition and, now that I'm done with "The Wedding" and R. Scott Bakker's "The Darkness That Comes Before," I'll read that next.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123803857919545282005-08-11T19:44:00.000-04:002005-08-11T19:44:00.000-04:00Ah. I apologize. You did link to Abolition. The bo...Ah. I apologize. You did link to Abolition. The book I read was Mere Christianity.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123803773579164762005-08-11T19:42:00.000-04:002005-08-11T19:42:00.000-04:00You referred me to Mere Christianity.You referred me to Mere Christianity.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123796718563411742005-08-11T17:45:00.000-04:002005-08-11T17:45:00.000-04:00James, I'm disappointed. Nowhere in The Abolition...James, I'm disappointed. Nowhere in <I>The Abolition of Man</I> does Lewis refer to the question of Jesus' divinity.<BR/><BR/>I'm afraid I cannot take you at your word that you read the book.<BR/><BR/>In fact, Lewis explicitly shies away from the subject of God entirely:<BR/><BR/>"In order to avoid misunderstanding, I may add that though I myself am a Theist, and indeed a Christian, I am not here attempting any indirect argument for Theism. <BR/><BR/>I am simply arguing that if we are to have values at all we must accept the ultimate platitudes of Practical Reason as having absolute validity: that any attempt, having become sceptical about these, to reintroduce value lower down on some supposedly more 'realistic' basis, is doomed. Whether this position implies a supernatural origin for the Tao is a question I am not here concerned with. "<BR/><BR/>It is a purely philosophical work.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123791906480220682005-08-11T16:25:00.000-04:002005-08-11T16:25:00.000-04:00C.S. Lewis this, C.S. Lewis that. Went to the link...C.S. Lewis this, C.S. Lewis that. Went to the link you provided. Read the book. So utterly unconvinced. I have a hard time accepting arguments that try to prove the existence of God/Divinity of Christ when in order to make the arguments you have to have accepted the basic premise of said divinity first.<BR/><BR/>I mean, in that one quote, Lewis is utterly WRONG. So many things Jesus said were beautiful teachings that any philosopher, teacher, or social organizer could say and would be revered for. Whether they were a schizophrenic nutjob or not.<BR/><BR/>Said it before, I'll say it again: Sometimes good ideas are just that: good ideas. Some are even so good that they stick with people forever.<BR/><BR/>And, Locke? Spoken like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, but rather desperately wants to have a contrary opinion.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123783999062790212005-08-11T14:13:00.000-04:002005-08-11T14:13:00.000-04:00... either that or someone has humor issues ... my...... either that or someone has humor issues ... my guess is the latter!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123751138605327062005-08-11T05:05:00.000-04:002005-08-11T05:05:00.000-04:00Quite right, Anon. CS Lewis in Mere Christianity:...Quite right, Anon. CS Lewis in <I>Mere Christianity</I>:<BR/><BR/>"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher; he'd either be a lunatic -- on a level with a man who says he's a poached egg -- or else he'd be the devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse...<BR/><BR/>"You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."<BR/><BR/>And, of course, no person can consider himself educated without a familiarity with Lewis, whether he accepts his conclusions or not.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123739617869628952005-08-11T01:53:00.000-04:002005-08-11T01:53:00.000-04:00The only thing worse than the news that tlaloc has...The only thing worse than the news that tlaloc has kids is the news that they still come to visit.Jay D. Homnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14714671338316275833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123731762734532142005-08-10T23:42:00.000-04:002005-08-10T23:42:00.000-04:00Go with Lewis in that situation. The mental healt...Go with Lewis in that situation. The mental health business hasn't exactly been a sterling success outside of the pharmaceutical remedies, which come from outside the mental health training.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123712526795968912005-08-10T18:22:00.000-04:002005-08-10T18:22:00.000-04:00Exactly. My work and reading in mental health lead...Exactly. My work and reading in mental health leads me to conclude one thing. His reading C.S. Lewis leads him to conclude another...James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123711675298214882005-08-10T18:07:00.000-04:002005-08-10T18:07:00.000-04:00The "messiah or a lunatic" comes from reading, I b...The "messiah or a lunatic" comes from reading, I believe, C.S. Lewis, however I could be wrong.<BR/><BR/>I suppose I played a little fast-and-loose with the word "educated". My meaning was that he was using extra-biblical reasoning and/or thought in that interview.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123711239473166512005-08-10T18:00:00.000-04:002005-08-10T18:00:00.000-04:00Never said it did. That was T.Interesting standard...Never said it did. That was T.<BR/><BR/>Interesting standard you have for being an educated Christian. One must conclude that Christ was either the Messiah or a lunatic? Well, indeed, I've been saying that all along, only my work with schizophrenics leads me to a different conclusion than yours...James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123710531211390872005-08-10T17:48:00.000-04:002005-08-10T17:48:00.000-04:00Not sure who kissed his behind. Bono did somethin...Not sure who kissed his behind. Bono did something extraordinary, he is a rockstar/superstar and he professed to be a Christian. Not just in name only, but all the way to "Christ was either the Messiah or a lunatic." <BR/><BR/>This shows him NOT to be simply a bible-believing Christian, but also an educated one; likely to have read C.S. Lewis and other apologists.<BR/><BR/>What his EXPRESSION OF FAITH has to do with politics is beyond me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123709057384799992005-08-10T17:24:00.000-04:002005-08-10T17:24:00.000-04:00The T-man is back! Traffic stats will be headed t...The T-man is back! Traffic stats will be headed through the roof!Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123706570653626232005-08-10T16:42:00.000-04:002005-08-10T16:42:00.000-04:00I think Tlaloc was just pointing out the irony inh...I think Tlaloc was just pointing out the irony inherent in your kissing the behind of a socialist liberal like Bono because of his vocal Christian faith. Other than faith, y'all exist at opposite ends of the spectrum.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123705687602327962005-08-10T16:28:00.000-04:002005-08-10T16:28:00.000-04:00Tlaloc,I'd hardly call this "fawning all over " Bo...Tlaloc,<BR/><BR/>I'd hardly call this "fawning all over " Bono; besides, since when is making a statement of faith "political"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123694570410850492005-08-10T13:22:00.000-04:002005-08-10T13:22:00.000-04:00This interview mirrors the lyrics to "Grace" on th...This interview mirrors the lyrics to "Grace" on the "All That You Can't leave Behind" album ... especially the part about karma.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123689955445007152005-08-10T12:05:00.000-04:002005-08-10T12:05:00.000-04:00Crap, I knew that Kathy, but just didn't want to l...Crap, I knew that Kathy, but just didn't want to look it up. I agree about the latest album. I bought it and am really happy with it.Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123686893580967262005-08-10T11:14:00.000-04:002005-08-10T11:14:00.000-04:00Actually, it's Sheryl Crow.Actually, it's Sheryl Crow.Kathy Hutchinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851875819094837357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123686692322326852005-08-10T11:11:00.000-04:002005-08-10T11:11:00.000-04:00Unlike the Rolling Stones and their new tune, whic...<I>Unlike the Rolling Stones and their new tune, which plays up to lame radical chic, Bono has refused to condemn anybody</I><BR/><BR/>There's another big difference between Bono and Mick Jagger -- U2 is still making kick-ass music. <I>How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb</I> is as good or better than any of their earlier work. How far back to you have to go to say the same thing about the Rolling Stones with a straight face? <I>Some Girls</I> at least. They've now been pathetic for closing on 30 years.Kathy Hutchinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851875819094837357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123639738619760162005-08-09T22:08:00.000-04:002005-08-09T22:08:00.000-04:00I've been meaning to say something nice about Bono...I've been meaning to say something nice about Bono, too. Unlike the Rolling Stones and their new tune, which plays up to lame radical chic, Bono has refused to condemn anybody and instead has answered the question I pose to our lefty friends of late: What good are you trying to accomplish?<BR/><BR/>The ceaseless drone of "Bush Lied" is oriented toward no good. The murdering dictator of Iraq is out; 8 million purple thumbs expressed a hope and prayer for the future. What shall we do now, turn our backs on them? Are they less worthy or less threatened than the million dead Rwandans we wring our hands about not having stood up for?<BR/><BR/>Back to Bono, he, to the best of his fathoming and ability is trying to accomplish good, for Africa in particular, and will even work with heinous neo-cons to get it done. Surely he looked at Live Aid, which, although viewed by almost 2 billion people, raised a paltry $60 or 80 million, which won't get squat done for an entire continent.<BR/><BR/>Looks like he gave Sir Bob Geldof the word, because Live8 was politically well-behaved, and is likely to accomplish a helluva lot more. I had a few other thoughts on the whole deal <A HREF="http://philosodude.blogspot.com/2005/07/left-is-right.html" REL="nofollow">here.</A> Worth a click I think, at least for one of my better captions.<BR/><BR/>(And, oh yeah, mystical/Pauline Christianity [Jesus died for your sins] definitely is all about freeing us from the wheel of Karma. I sure hope so. One of these lives is enough for me, thank you. I think Maimonides and rabbinical Judaism have a bit to say on the subject, too, but I'm not as qualified as perhaps others here gathered to explain it.)<BR/><BR/>(Hint, hint, ecumenical hint...)Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123635012622345922005-08-09T20:50:00.000-04:002005-08-09T20:50:00.000-04:00Think that's Sheryl Crowe.Think that's Sheryl Crowe.Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123634513698136922005-08-09T20:41:00.000-04:002005-08-09T20:41:00.000-04:00And in the case of Cheryl Crowe, you have a babe a...And in the case of Cheryl Crowe, you have a babe and a rock star!Francis Beckwithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03765632359220115150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1123633676733228802005-08-09T20:27:00.000-04:002005-08-09T20:27:00.000-04:00That is a very wise statement. From the mouths of ...That is a very wise statement. From the mouths of babes and rock stars. . . .S. T. Karnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05971214612730402709noreply@blogger.com