tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post112498197376561989..comments2024-03-06T03:15:58.539-05:00Comments on <b>THE NEW REFORM CLUB</b>: The Conservative DilemmaHunter Bakerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125072890837197862005-08-26T12:14:00.000-04:002005-08-26T12:14:00.000-04:00"Some societies are clearly better than others."Th..."Some societies are clearly better than others."<BR/><BR/>This delineation of worth is made from your own cultural perspective. It cannot be a self-evident truth because the denizens of the culture one is judging will feel theirs is the superior one. The judgment of worth is made from a biased evaluation system, predicated on one's own cultural and socio-religious beliefs. Even an attempt at a utilitarian evaluation is doomed to failure due to cultural disparities in perception.<BR/><BR/>(Full disclosure: I happen to agree that Western European culture, while far from perfect, is one of the better cultures out there; but I'm willing to acknowledge that I make this evaluation on biased grounds. Everyone, including myself, approaches other cultures from a biased place.)<BR/><BR/>Hunter, you were right. Your statement was not "rubber and glue." It was more like, "I believe what I believe, so there!" Now, there's nothing wrong with that statement, so long as you acknowledge that your evaluations of other cultures come from a biased place.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125059794579181112005-08-26T08:36:00.000-04:002005-08-26T08:36:00.000-04:00That's exactly what I didn't do, JFE. Again, read...That's exactly what I didn't do, JFE. Again, read the comment. The part about self-evident truths was throwaway because I know you and Tlaloc don't understand it or believe they are real. The actual engagement was beneath.Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125030638343586992005-08-26T00:30:00.000-04:002005-08-26T00:30:00.000-04:00See, here, my defense mechanism was a response to ...See, here, my defense mechanism was a response to your defense mechanism, which is to announce something as "self-evident" and then throw up your hands and walk away without engagement.<BR/><BR/>I disagree with the idea that anything is self-evident. I'll agree that some are such good ideas that most people would agree with them.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125025836485029852005-08-25T23:10:00.000-04:002005-08-25T23:10:00.000-04:00I just looked back at my previous post to make cer...I just looked back at my previous post to make certain and it is clear, JFE. You are making nonsensical statements. I clearly offered an argument for Tlaloc to deal with. He did, whether I agree or not that he is right, and the dance continues. No rubber and glue here.Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125019635474954902005-08-25T21:27:00.000-04:002005-08-25T21:27:00.000-04:00James, sometimes you can be so recalcitrant I just...James, sometimes you can be so recalcitrant I just want to give up on trying to discuss things with you. Your defense mechanism is to attribute bad motives or stupidity to people making an actual point. Unless you think Thomas Jefferson was a moron, then you should reconsider your opinion of self-evident truths and the claim that they exist. Are you Jefferson's clear superior? Was he a caveman compared to James the great?Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125011953865161612005-08-25T19:19:00.000-04:002005-08-25T19:19:00.000-04:00Hunter, your response is the intellectual equivale...Hunter, your response is the intellectual equivalent of "I'm rubber, you're glue, so nanny-nanny-boo-boo!"<BR/><BR/>Usually when people say things are self-evident, it's because they don't have an argument to convince others.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125007000887701262005-08-25T17:56:00.000-04:002005-08-25T17:56:00.000-04:00T-man, this is another one of those self-evident t...T-man, this is another one of those self-evident truths (but don't perseverate on that). Some societies are clearly better than others. Based on your many, many comments and objections, it is clear you have an idea in your mind of what a better society would look like relative to what we have now.Hunter Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961831404331998743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8776899.post-1125000267116247772005-08-25T16:04:00.000-04:002005-08-25T16:04:00.000-04:00Equality in the sense that Warren is speaking of a...Equality in the sense that Warren is speaking of above is a value judgment made from his own cultural perspective. Now, there isn't anything per se wrong with that. People do it all the time. The part of multiculturalism that most people find difficult is that it requires us to realize that we are evaluating others from our own cultural perspective which is no more "normative" than that of the person we are evaluating. That is to say, "normal" is in the eye of the beholder. <BR/><BR/>It is important to note that revenge killings, the oppression of women, and genital mutilation are facets of a number of different cultures and are not limited to Muslims (whose religion was profoundly influenced by the good and bad facets of Arab and Bedouin culture). For example, the Indian tradition of <I>suttee</I>--setting a widow or accused adultress on fire--is still practiced by the Hindus and Muslims of that country despite the government's attempts to root it out. Until the modern age, women were heavily oppressed, including physical and mutilative abuse, in Western Europe. The oppression of women in Western culture continues, though it is certainly much less obvious and institutionally abusive than it was.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.com